ImpLaNT wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:04 am Very little profit today due to the fact that the price range is very small and continues to folding. The 25 pips pair's spread is already beginning to be visible on the general background of the price chart. With the usual 1500-2000 pips ADR for BTCUSD, now it is 394. This is very small and the market is extremely dangerous with such compressions.
Plus an early exit from the position, due to the fact that I still don't trust Orbit completely. Not enough experience yet...

Nice one! But permit this simple comment on "due to the fact that I still don't trust Orbit completely." I would (from my perspective), rephrase as, you do not trust yourself with Orbit completely yet. And that is of course understandable and the solution is use over time to gain what you have said "Not enough experience yet." One thing that can help always ---try to gain a strong sense of the space you are trading as much as possible. First, look at page 12 and work out intraday what diagonal you are trading up or down and on what scale, then of course where you are both on the parabola (S) and in MRI space. Of course work out what you might expect of the pivoting from Spot Trend as well making sure your thinking aligns with the Global Inverse on command. When you do all or some of that you will feel the market to be less dangerous than you would suppose without doing any of that because you will then see the contours of risk-free space and decide how dangerous is where you are trading relative to the space and time you are trading. This is in addition to whatever else gives you comfort to know for yourself by any means you have. Yes you can read how safe you are using Orbit Analysis as everyone feels some sense of risk trading - I know because I feel the same way too but find that by axial analysis of space such as I have suggested it gets toned down quite a bit and I regain the mental space to act more confidently with less fear. I hope I help and do not criticize as I am in no position to criticize anyone at all. There are no rules only the logic of the space that the trader reads before and while in some trade. Again nice one!

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PS: The space ahead is critical and I would look at MRI H1 X H4 X D1 to gain a sense in sequence.+ the Power Icon

Darkdoji wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:37 am Nice one! But permit this simple comment on "due to the fact that I still don't trust Orbit completely." I would (from my perspective), rephrase as, you do not trust yourself with Orbit completely yet. And that is of course understandable and the solution is use over time to gain what you have said "Not enough experience yet." One thing that can help always ---try to gain a strong sense of the space you are trading as much as possible. First, look at page 12 and work out intraday what diagonal you are trading up or down and on what scale, then of course where you are both on the parabola (S) and in MRI space. Of course work out what you might expect of the pivoting from Spot Trend as well making sure your thinking aligns with the Global Inverse on command. When you do all or some of that you will feel the market to be less dangerous than you would suppose without doing any of that because you will then see the contours of risk-free space and decide how dangerous is where you are trading relative to the space and time you are trading. This is in addition to whatever else gives you comfort to know for yourself by any means you have. Yes you can read how safe you are using Orbit Analysis as everyone feels some sense of risk trading - I know because I feel the same way too but find that by axial analysis of space such as I have suggested it gets toned down quite a bit and I regain the mental space to act more confidently with less fear. I hope I help and do not criticize as I am in no position to criticize anyone at all. There are no rules only the logic of the space that the trader reads before and while in some trade. Again nice one!

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PS: The space ahead is critical and I would look at MRI H1 X H4 X D1 to gain a sense in sequence.+ the Power Icon

So as not to sound abstract below is what I mean in general terms not specific the trade that triggered this discussion. This is what I mean.

[a] We know that the global diagonal is the intraday diagonal. And we also know that Cyclicality + Inverse On = Diagonal

Therefore axial value = o at its low or high [ and so risk = 0 from that point to one and only one side of the market from a given level + all the other properties of the global primitive in page 12, as a result.

In addition, we know the behaviour of the variable in that space is recursively the same as the sign of the space. Based on this sense of space one can judge and make sure to do only things that keeps the space risk-free for individual trades we make.

[d] So one is trading a behaviour as a result of this definition of space ------> a recursive behaviour because in -ve space pivot highs translate price lower and in +ve space lows translate to highs. So one can see the initial values in and out of spaces. As such one knows what pivots she is looking for where, and when and therefore one is able to anticipate market behaviour under a given sign [b]spot [/b]in a focused or deliberate manner.

[e] In the fracture primitives on page 12 we see that our "measure space" contains an allowance for projecting behaviour within a pattern of cascades that look and behave alike. So unless sign is changed Globally, our taking out trades in direction may not be profit maximizing always but of course will take everyone his own personal time to think out how they want to manage this property over the future (and this is NOT a comment on your actual trade-I cannot tell from where I am the correctness of your decision at the point of trade action). Nice though to keep in mind that traders overly used to risky space tend to take less than the market offers per trade.

[f] What if I am not around and price turns? This is in a sense also a response to [e] because the analysis in page 12 shows that all moves end in the FLE - price behaviour is not irrational, but the fear in the trading mind of that possibility is by definition irrationality and this does affect results (e.g. when we get out with less than we could when in our minds we want the most we can get). For example, I did not take profit the last trade that I showed last week until this week open Why? I used the property of chaotic trading space that shows price will always close in FLE (reduce to the singularity), and which arguably makes the FLE therefore the best space to TP. But note, not by some number we know ahead, rather by recognizing where we are in space at every stop. The model shows that space is a dynamical pattern.

Just a thought. Because in fact it is for the [b]individual trader[/b] to work out the implications of the fractal geometry of Orbit the Tool in order to decide how to work with it. E. G. Given you can work out the risk-free space how would you work out the amounts you can make from that space for the duration it lasts? Especially, given price still goes up and down in that space? How many trades? Where and even when. The aim of course is to become a strategic trader once you can tell the safe space to work and first things first, so good to find the space first thing.

I know most people do not think Orbit the Tool as the Holy Grail and I am patient with that view, but there is no explanation of any market possible, in which the money just tumbles out of the skies - this is the shock I had when I found the market equation. I found I still have to work for the money and use my mind and how much I win still depends on my mind, but now I trade at an advantage. I know the space in which I haunt. A common invocation of the African hunter is "Know the space in which you haunt, else it is suicide to haunt at all." Like traders haunters are risk averse.

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Just to share another thought with the everybody crowd as above, think what we are saying here viewtopic.php?p=1295520565#p1295520565 and in indeed what the prototype can do now. Then imagine what we are really going to do with the cloud version. Then you will pardon me if I wake up in the morning not thinking of the prototype at all. For me the cloud version is final because what we can do from the cloud is really amazing indeed. Much of what you have to do your self will be done for you from the cloud. But that is because we want to also make online trading new and different publics that are now trading online - at very little risk to everyone. Again just a thought.

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PS: The idea that as a person my concern is with trading or that I wake up thinking of what I am going to make from trading Orbit is misplaced. I do not care very much about trading I care only for market dynamics and the tool I would want make in the cloud. I really am focused on making a tool much more than I am about making money day to day trading.

maybe you can use this code to give signals with the fractal patterns
i think d1 might be better then 4h inverse but only from what ive seen in macd

Hello, Samm...
Thanks for your comments. I can always learn something new from them, albeit bit by bit, but nevertheless ...

Darkdoji wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:32 am [f] What if I am not around and price turns? This is in a sense also a response to [e] because the analysis in page 12 shows that all moves end in the FLE - price behaviour is not irrational, but the fear in the trading mind of that possibility is by definition irrationality and this does affect results (e.g. when we get out with less than we could when in our minds we want the most we can get). For example, I did not take profit the last trade that I showed last week until this week open Why? I used the property of chaotic trading space that shows price will always close in FLE (reduce to the singularity), and which arguably makes the FLE therefore the best space to TP. But note, not by some number we know ahead, rather by recognizing where we are in space at every stop. The model shows that space is a dynamical pattern.

Let me argue with you a little. You say that any movement must end in the FLE stage. As you probably already understood from my posts and pictures, I am an intraday trader. That is, I open a position once (sometimes 2, but rarely) per day in the direction of the daily bias. And its important for me not only to open it in time, but also to close it in time, because there are very sharp rebounds from extremums. In the picture, I show the places of price reversals where the FLE stage is absent. And at such moments, its important to take profit in time, otherwise in a couple of hours your profit will turn into a loss.



I don't dispute your theory and I am inclined to believe that the absence of a FLE zone in such reversals rather indicates that these are not global reversals, but rather intermediate stations and the previous movement will continue after the market calms down. But...I am an intraday trader and therefore it is advisable for me not to allow such moments and not to allow a profitable position to turn into a losing one. Therefore, the issue of profit fixing is important for me. And so I have certain risks and fears of not closing on time. Because of this, I lose part of the profit. It turns out that it is easier for me to open a position correctly than to close it correctly. And I'm working on this too. This issue also has a psychological aspect. But nevertheless, pay attention to the fact that yesterday I correctly foresaw a sharp reversal without FLE and it happened, but I did not maintain the position and I also admit this.

Darkdoji wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:37 am PS: The space ahead is critical and I would look at MRI H1 X H4 X D1 to gain a sense in sequence.+ the Power Icon

And there is one more question, since you touched on this element... Tell us more about the essence of this icon. I think, and I believe that there is a deep meaning in it, but its not described in detail anywhere in your documentation. I once stated my assumptions to you, but you said that they are incorrect. Therefore, I will not cite them again. But I want to know the true and correct description of the meaning of this element. Thank you!

I know that some of the things we have put out would be intellectually inaccessible to (beyond the mental comprehension of), some traders and visiting members to the thread - especially those not particularly adept at any kind of analytical thought or those not naturally inclined to do well in joined up thinking, but feel pressure to appear to be in the know. That of course is understandable as all fingers are not equal and ability in anything including the assessment of market models follows a normal curve (very useful in those types of assessments but not in markets or market tools). So it is nothing to feel ashamed of if you have no clue what the discussion is about on the thread at this time - clueless people still get by in trading (arguably a lot of clueless people get by in trading e.g. in harmonics and such - static patterns that work only by chance not due to any provable property). But the point here is if you are unable to understand and or relate to the primitives on page 12 you are unlikely to be in a position to contribute anything that is constructive from this point forward even by accident and as we begin to reveal things in more depth.
So we suggest to would be commenters to first try to understand page 12 and failing that patiently wait for those who would eventually do to break it down to a level they might understand at some later point in thread discussions. That way they would benefit more and of course be better placed to make constructive comments at some level. I again repeat that anyone may aspire but not everyone might understand what is being said - and it is normal in all fields that many severely lag in mental comprehension of even the basics of especially innovative ideas in those fields but still want a voice (if for nothing else, to be counted as belonging). But this is nothing that patience will not resolve eventually as more and more people who actually have the ability open up and explain things in ways closer to the abilities of such laggards on the diffusion of innovation curve to appreciate (which curve calculates the proportion of persons likely in that common phenomenon for specific instances). But for such people (and they are self aware), it is helpful to first allow that process to take place in order to benefit all - Just my 2 cents as I have not stopped laughing recently. It is ok not to know about chaos, etc and its application in this case, but if sincerely interested stay cool - eventually, and only eventually.

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ImpLaNT wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:05 am Hello, Samm...
Thanks for your comments. I can always learn something new from them, albeit bit by bit, but nevertheless ...

Let me argue with you a little. You say that any movement must end in the FLE stage. As you probably already understood from my posts and pictures, I am an intraday trader. That is, I open a position once (sometimes 2, but rarely) per day in the direction of the daily bias. And its important for me not only to open it in time, but also to close it in time, because there are very sharp rebounds from extremums. In the picture, I show the places of price reversals where the FLE stage is absent. And at such moments, its important to take profit in time, otherwise in a couple of hours your profit will turn into a loss.
Thank you!

I know you to be extremely competent and from what you have said here you validate that belief on my part. Your original post brought out some thoughts in me and I expressed them for the benefit of all. Do NOT take it that all I have said are specifically directed at you or your trading. No I am talking to the everybody crowd using the opportunity of your post. But for this immediate post of yours look at it like this: a) you are clearly a most competent trader and there is nothing I can tell you about your personal framework for interfacing the market b) For instance you explained exactly why it is not possible for you to close in the FLE the way you trade currently which is fine - nothing to say about that and those points you show in the screenshot are exactly as you explain them (non global pinpoints), so you know how to manage things rationally in your current game so there is really nothing you need to change. It is your game and you play it the way you want. b) However, I am also saying that with the tools we have in analysis you can now make a rational (technical) review of your trading and see for yourself what you want to change, how and why? The notion of a day trader and wanting to close at a given time comes from a sense trained to risky space (in "technical" trading there is no equivalent tools or processes to make the assessment that the primitives in page 12 enable you to make). c) If you look at space as we have defined and shown can be evaluated by the technical tool I call primitives you might find it is not really your best option even for the limited time you have given the way you can recalculate space now and therefore based on actual technical data you gain by employing this tool re-strategize based on what you now learn from applying the analysis (it is not as if you applied the analysis before and then rejected the results). So that is what you can do now that you could not do before in a rational way. d) then again even for your current sense of the market and the way you like to trade or think makes the most sense for you now - you can still apply the same tool to check possibilities for increasing profit. BOTTOM LINE if there is anything I am saying it is to everyone and using your post as context I am saying everybody apply this tool on page 12 and gain more information about your current strategy and think from what the analysis will reveal how you might better improve it. It is not about your style at all it is about a new ability to examine things both in real-time and strategically that I am speaking. Have you done the analysis? I am sure no. Why? Because you feel decided about what you want to do and do not think there is anything you need to change based on the old information you have about market space. Great but I am saying check the new information and you might find that it helps hugely - even in your exact situation to possibly improve your take from the market per period. Try the analysis and see first and in fact if you understand me and use the analysis in live trades there is no reason why it does not help you spot. So move off of the assumption that I am being personal. No I am not I am merely putting out something new you could try ---- that is why OrbitPlay is a useful issue it has new things that will help your sense of the market in a new way just as it has helped mine and I am sharing. You try the analysis and see because it also generates discussion in a way others might see it simple to use (per my post before this response). The butterfly or Power icon has some numbers on it which tells the space left in direction assuming a scale between 0 and 100 on the oscillator it uses So it is completely up to you and I can only tell you that if you use the analysis book you can only improve income no matter what or how you decide to configure your trading which is your business. I am only telling you and everyone who wants to know -- that "technical" sense of of day trading is based on "technical" scarecrows and is really meaningless in chaotic space. I am also telling you that if you use the technical tool now available you can make some objective changes based on objective data---so try it and see. Really simple and not at all concerned with your style just for you to learn how to use an Orbit tool and the benefits possible.

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Darkdoji wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:41 pm

Thank you for such a long post, for your explanations and also for your opinion about my professional competence as a trader, although I think its somewhat exaggerated.
I am working and will continue to move towards to full knowledge and mastery of the instrument, but it takes time. Special thanks for the description of the Power icon. This further refines the use of the tool. In general, its diversity and functionality are striking when something new is being discovered all the time and there seems to be no end to this ....

ImpLaNT wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:05 am Hello, Samm...
Thanks for your comments. I can always learn something new from them, albeit bit by bit, but nevertheless ...


Let me argue with you a little. You say that any movement must end in the FLE stage. Thank you!

I hope now you understand that I am only trying to state general principles about Orbit using the stimulus I got from your post but not with particular reference at all to you or your trading - those do not interest me because you are happy with your trading and you make money so that is great. But if you think I am talking to you every time I speak around your post then it becomes impossible for me to share what I know with you and others. That is my interest. TO RVEAL THE TOOL TO EVERYONE IN A WAY THAT IT CAN BELONG TO EVERYONE. There is much more to come when I start posting trades here - a lot will be shown. One final thing and let me quote you so you do not NOT misunderstand. You said that that I said that all movements end in FLE - that is not all I did. To be fair I show what FLE is and so that it can be verified on any chart that price moves into FLE at close, and exits from it post open going up or down. I show it so that traders can see and know the begin and the end of all moves. I show it in a way you and everyone can check it and see it is 100% true. Also so that you can define your strategy with that advantage. You told me once or have you forgotten that you wanted to know the end of the attractor - it was so very important to you as I assumed it was for some strategy you had in mind. I know you to be very good in strategy. So I gave you the FLE and KSO exact limits. I thought you would be happy to know the end of the attractor and now use that to make more money because if you know the 2 ends of a trade the risk in that trade is by definition zero --- that is a lot of money. That is why I am saying to you the analysis is in a book and we can all use it to make more money because it tells us the secrets of the space the limits and behaviour of the shape live. Any way I show this in a way that anyone who can count can check to see it is true.

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ImpLaNT wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:53 pm Thank you for such a long post, for your explanations and also for your opinion about my professional competence as a trader, although I think its somewhat exaggerated.
I am working and will continue to move towards to full knowledge and mastery of the instrument, but it takes time. Special thanks for the description of the Power icon. This further refines the use of the tool. In general, its diversity and functionality are striking when something new is being discovered all the time and there seems to be no end to this ....

You can reject it out of hand. I really do not care at all. Its your choice to make and indeed there is more to reveal when I start posting my trades so I am afraid now is the time to say goodbye to Orbit there IS more - it is not a simple tool (and hence the cloud), it solves the market exactly and in a way I will show to the whole world step by my step. There is an end. But you do not determine it I do. This thing must be everywhere for everyone to use but in a form no here right now can imagine. You can even make games out of it. There is no end there too.

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PS: When I mention your competence it reflects observations (e.g. you have shown 4 wins I assume out of 4 trades just in a few days) and I did not say more than that. I am someone who designs measures. You cannot say what my measure is to assume what is exaggeration in my statements and I do not flatter people. But my truth is more important to me than it is to you. A pity you have to go but you MUST go, there is a lot more and you have seen not nearly all what I have in mind. Best wishes