Re: A New Trading Game (chaos game) Played for Money and Played in Risk- Free Space

671
Darkdoji wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:01 am There is a Whitedoji, a friend of mine who may or may not join us formally depending on whether his application to join FS is approved subsequent to now. Attached are his example trades which will help us think about the Strange Attractor I am so keen we talk about and discuss (most critical). In any case watching the sequences of snaps does tell us a thing or two in addition to what you read and glean from my tutorial notes which I sincerely hope you will all look at to open up the desired chat we need to have over the concept, what it means to trading and trading strategy.
Cheers,
(-_-)
I just don't get it, man. The pilot did not put any stop loss. With all due respect, even if you say with full confidence that Orbit does a 100/100, no SL = a no no for me. There has got to be a better way to enter a trade without having those huge draw downs, both those short and long entries were just for 0.01 lots for goodness sake.

One can not simply separate emotion from being human - unless you prove your thesis into law by running it on an EA, utilizing your commands and all. Capturing (screenshot) every entry and exit to show that the commands were on the chart when they were made.

Reading through this whole thread, I know that I am not on the same level of mathematical enlightenment as you - and so are the other traders. But hell, if I can not communicate to you that the angle of approach you're taking to convey your ideas and on how you present them to your audience is simply not the most efficient nor effective way - this thread will just ramble on until it reaches the maximum page allowed on this site.


Re: A New Trading Game (chaos game) Played for Money and Played in Risk- Free Space

672
jullian29 wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:01 am I just don't get it, man. The pilot did not put any stop loss. With all due respect, even if you say with full confidence that Orbit does a 100/100, no SL = a no no for me. There has got to be a better way to enter a trade without having those huge draw downs, both those short and long entries were just for 0.01 lots for goodness sake.

One can not simply separate emotion from being human - unless you prove your thesis into law by running it on an EA, utilizing your commands and all. Capturing (screenshot) every entry and exit to show that the commands were on the chart when they were made.

Reading through this whole thread, I know that I am not on the same level of mathematical enlightenment as you - and so are the other traders. But hell, if I can not communicate to you that the angle of approach you're taking to convey your ideas and on how you present them to your audience is simply not the most efficient nor effective way - this thread will just ramble on until it reaches the maximum page allowed on this site.
If you understand the notion of a Strange Attractor a) you would not see the fluctuations as drawdowns and .01merely allows you train your senses to the space (recommended). But the pilot is not contracted to you or anyone for lot size, now let me say the following generally b) in fact a stop loss is applied but may be not where you expected (since you have very rigid ideas apparently about how trading is done), a stop loss is a convenience in risk-free space (mostly to guard against topological mixing), it is only an absolute necessity in risky ("technical" analysis) space because you are guessing in that space and within dimensions you do not understand or can control. In your reaction it is obvious that your mind is considering behaviour you learnt from "technical" analysis but the pilot has learnt to fly in chaotic space and according to the known rules of that space. A deterministic system is certain per current diagonal so do not mix up 2 completely different concepts - in other words before you judge learn the new concept first and what it allows and does not allow you to do in practical terms and why c) we have said we are not dealing with a "trading system" and based on the knowledge of chaotic space you can choose how you wish to trade - the pilot is not teaching you what to do he is doing what he understands well and nothing invites you to do the same as you only do what suits you. But it is important to know that "technical" analysis is NOT a "truth" because if anything there were true chaos would be a false science but we know it is not for markets and other spheres where it applies. Unless you understand what we have been saying and actually practice and experience it, your ideas within the sphere may not apply coming as it is from another sphere which has no knowledge of market dynamics, none whatsoever. d) I welcome your views on how to communicate the subject and would be delighted for you to enlighten as to how it has been done to great effectiveness and efficiency, e.g. on some other forum on the same subject because I do want to communicate effectively but otherwise you could for instance tell us here by listing the specifics of what defines your idea of effective and efficient communication of the subject. e) "There has got to be a better way to enter a trade without having those huge draw downs". Please show us. f) "One can not simply separate emotion from being human - unless you prove your thesis into law by running it on an EA, utilizing your commands and all. Capturing (screenshot) every entry and exit to show that the commands were on the chart when they were made." Emotions yes - that is why we have the Screenface to help and you will find that it does (because again without any experience of the model whatsoever and even granted that you are the best trader in the world by track, nothing gives you the ability to state otherwise without evidence of your experience with the model). Finally, g) Lets be clear and reasonable here, I came to share my thoughts and ideas and I am not here to "prove" anything to anyone. Take it or leave it, try it to find it or not find it. Those are the choices you have to make. I sincerely wish you well.

The Crow (-_-)

Re: A New Trading Game (chaos game) Played for Money and Played in Risk- Free Space

673
Please everyone - mathematics is the context of the discoveries that allow Orbit the Tool to come into existence. But lets not therefore focus on the idea that you have to know any math at all to a) use the tool b) discuss it as a trading application or c) interact in the forum. The law of gravity stated in physics notation might be hard for everyone to understand, but it remains true in the simple statement "what goes up must come down." Everyone can understand that and it is at that level of understanding that gravity as an important discovery has it's most general utility - we use it all the time. So all we are doing here is to try to get a simple concept to that level of general understanding in trading. You do not need math to participate in that process All we are saying is simple, at a high price is called to a low and at low price is called to high. Now, it so happens that this fact we know to be generally true and we see day in day out trading, has a well established basis in mathematics and understanding this basis we believe, can change the risk in trading and help profitability greatly. That is all - but if you are not getting the idea do not blame math or a lack of knowledge of the subject - since it would be more to do with some inability to gain a simple concept - but that is also fine because with time and some effort any concept that is true soon becomes clear.
We have told you that in a homoeomorphic bijection transformation MUST complete and is complete therefore ONLY when X = Y (it is a force or law natural to markets). A point at low that starts at X (low price), completes at Y (high price), and the fluctuations in between is the process that makes it so.
The market we have told you is a function. A function takes in input (price is at a low) and applies an operator (repeated folding) to output therefore (stretching in a given direction or a translation) so that low price (input) is transformed into high price (output). This is the same as the F(x^2) = Y which for the input 2 is transformed by (2*2) the operator, equals 4 the output.
We then took time to make screenshots available to show exactly what we have said by showing you how the market Strange Attractor works in live markets, using 4 screenshots in the tutorial where you see a low point X fluctuate to reach a high point Y. Exactly the function as described above. We showed you that the process is simultaneously true across all dimensions of market time by comparing 6n to 5n and to be to the same effect, for the same move in the same timing and therefore validating the result as above (in other words price is a single point in the same direction at any time irrespective of market window or time frame used).
We tell you that this is all correct based on a tool we created, a tool based on these same facts and showed you that a) a point at low (Semaphore green) or input is transformed and translated by b) (colour change in fractal patterns or other cue on the Screenface), i.e. the operator or process to c) a point at high (Semaphore red) or output. That is the algorithm stated in English - this is simple enough we believe and the same as saying for example "if price is at low below RSi 30, if RSi goes above 30 price will rise until it is above RSi 70". However, for the statement to be consistently true we show the basis in mathematics. That is all this is about. Nothing complex or untrue at any time (i.e. you can depend on it).

(_-_)

Re: A New Trading Game (chaos game) Played for Money and Played in Risk- Free Space

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Hey Sam, @DarkDoji,
First of all , i hope you are in good shape and health, i want to thank you for your last update and posts, me as others highly appreciate your dedication to this project.
I'll briefly post because at the moment I am not present at my trading desk , ( i'm away with my laptop ) and therefore I cannot show you some trades i took and cannot elaborate too much because i'm away a little bit distracted but for now i'll say this.
In my opinion and by instinct, this last update is one of the most interesting one because it gives a better and seemingly simple and objective way on trading the semaphors and the pivots , and it expand the entry possibilities during the day.
I will humbly say my thoughts regarding the Strange Attractor topic, as the theory says, it should gives us a systematic "scheme" which repeats at different scales in our chaotic system (the market) , therefore knowing what is the Strange Attractor in the system we could actually exploit the scheme to get every time correct entries, because we are relying on a recursive pattern that exhibit in the system.
I would also like to discuss on the entries i done but at the moment i can't, will elaborate a new post with snap as soon as i can. Will leave just some questions i have in my mind and that come from the little bit of trading i already did , hope they won't be silly :
- Once the price hits a pivots and make a low / high with semaphors we wait for n fractal pattern to change, once it change the price will corrispectively move in the opposite direction making a new high low.
The issue here that i noted from the yesterday trades is : from the moment you have the n change and your high / low at a pivot it is possible that price will go beyond the latter ( high / low ) therefore making new high / lows, so how do we know how much the price will need to fluctate against our trade to preserve our risk ? Is it here that the strange attractor "scheme" comes in ?
Cheers

Re: A New Trading Game (chaos game) Played for Money and Played in Risk- Free Space

675
ItalianTrader wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:24 pm Hey Sam, @DarkDoji,

- Once the price hits a pivots and make a low / high with semaphors we wait for n fractal pattern to change, once it change the price will corrispectively move in the opposite direction making a new high low.
The issue here that i noted from the yesterday trades is : from the moment you have the n change and your high / low at a pivot it is possible that price will go beyond the latter ( high / low ) therefore making new high / lows, so how do we know how much the price will need to fluctate against our trade to preserve our risk ? Is it here that the strange attractor "scheme" comes in ?
Cheers
I am gratified that you understand as much as you do the notion of the Strange Attractor. I thank you for your kind words and I am greatly encouraged by the insights you provide. The simple answer to the question is this - there are no automaticities in chaotic space. You wait to be sure the move is exhausted and you learn this by practice. For me what I do is to avoid early trades as much as is possible and this means I will not join the trade until n is in a flow (Gold Arrow + Green dot) and the intraday partitions show the fractal pattern flow cut out colours (Light Red Down Arrow + Green dot). Intraday partitions = 2n - 6n in this context and they synchronize in direction almost at the same time. That should do the trick always. You know I say it all the time Orbit is not a trading system and its commands are in fact intuitively explicit so by practice and observations you get the hang and relax to trade. In fact your post just reminds me of a stupid mindset I have - I assume everyone knows exactly what I know about the tool - which is not correct. But because I have no experience teaching anything this mix up tends to affect my output in explaining things. But thanks for the question and of course I hope others seeing this response also benefit. Thanks again.

(-_-)

PS: The inverse of course applies for a down move as my response is more for a return trade higher


Re: A New Trading Game (chaos game) Played for Money and Played in Risk- Free Space

676
Darkdoji wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:12 am @regit can you figure out how your question here was answered looking at the 6n,5n matched example of the Strange Attractor trading shown? Do take a look again. If not clear to you let me know.
Cheers,
(-_-)
I studied the information in that post and the Tutorial04. It does confirm my notion of scaling, such that at "coarse" scales, such as 7n, 8n, 9n, the exact value that is calculated when visually plotted shows low resolution compared to "fine"scales such as n, 2n, 3n. That is, if the calulated value is 1.257966, then the coarse scales will have a plot that can resolve only to 2 decimals, resulting in values such as 1.XX or1.26, but the fine scales can resolve to many decimals. such as 1.XXXXX or 1.25797. So the plot is like the forest versus the trees: It is the same data, but the coarse view enables seeing only the forest without individual trees being resolved, and the area being plotted is rather large. The fine view is displaying only a small subset of the "forest" view, so it is zoomed-in, and captures individual trees. And of course, even smaller scaling enables capturing the branches and leaves.

However, because no data was included in your reply, it does not answer the part, "is the equation sufficiently detailed/complete such that Orbit actually does calculate the next number and it matches the number that is produced?". I would assume that this would require using tick data, because each incoming price quote is "the next value". And, if the calulated value does match the subsequent real value, then for every cyclic excursion of X to Y and back to X, it seems to me that you should be able to calculate far in advance as many values as desired and look for the maximum and minimum, and therefore, far in advance, already know the range that will be seen as price moves from X to Y. And of course, it would not be a prediction, but a simple fact revealed from merely continuing to use the equation to calculate the next value.
The Crow hates eating crow, but serves himself nearly every day.

Re: A New Trading Game (chaos game) Played for Money and Played in Risk- Free Space

677
Darkdoji wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:50 pm I am gratified that you understand as much as you do the notion of the Strange Attractor. I thank you for your kind words and I am greatly encouraged by the insights you provide. The simple answer to the question is this - there are no automaticities in chaotic space. You wait to be sure the move is exhausted and you learn this by practice. For me what I do is to avoid early trades as much as is possible and this means I will not join the trade until n is in a flow (Gold Arrow + Green dot) and the intraday partitions show the fractal pattern flow cut out colours (Light Red Down Arrow + Green dot). Intraday partitions = 2n - 6n in this context and they synchronize in direction almost at the same time. That should do the trick always. You know I say it all the time Orbit is not a trading system and its commands are in fact intuitively explicit so by practice and observations you get the hang and relax to trade. In fact your post just reminds me of a stupid mindset I have - I assume everyone knows exactly what I know about the tool - which is not correct. But because I have no experience teaching anything this mix up tends to affect my output in explaining things. But thanks for the question and of course I hope others seeing this response also benefit. Thanks again.

(-_-)
Thank you very much for your response,
So I assume if we seek certainty in the move, we need to wait for n-6n intraday partition coherence.
I've saw from WhiteDoji screenshots though, he would enter without waiting for the coherence also he put immediately the tp in the next farthest dotted Pivot point, reading the stretch moves very beforehand.
Another question is, i've seen in this new version that sometimes the Orbit Arrow would not be the same as the TT Arrow , is it regular or do you think it's pretty much an anomaly ?
Thanks once more for everything!

Re: A New Trading Game (chaos game) Played for Money and Played in Risk- Free Space

678
jullian29 wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:01 am I just don't get it, man. The pilot did not put any stop loss. With all due respect, even if you say with full confidence that Orbit does a 100/100, no SL = a no no for me. There has got to be a better way to enter a trade without having those huge draw downs, both those short and long entries were just for 0.01 lots for goodness sake.

Interesting... where did you see huge drawdowns here??? Both trades, up and down, are made absolutely correctly. Once again.... ABSOLUTELY. The fact that after the sell price fluctuated a little before making a big move does not mean anything. You can't know exactly how and with what aggressiveness the price will move in the direction of your open position. It can slowly slide throughout the day, or it can make a sheer wall within an hour. There was no noticeable drawdown in the first case. The price did not even try to return to the upper extreme.
Regarding stoploss... Do you know what stoplosses are invented for??? In order to be ripped off by other traders in search of liquidity (big uncles, not us), who open positions of 50-100 lots and they really need liquidity to enter, which you kindly provide them in the form of a set of your stoplosses. You must have repeatedly observed situations when the price moved against your position, went a certain distance beyond the extreme and turned down aggressively... So, it was them, big uncles, who dragged the price up to turn your stoplosses into liquidity to open their sell positions. I hope I explained clearly. Therefore, if a man is confident in what he is doing, he does not put stoplosses at least at the beginning of the price move, so as not to become food for larger fish. You keep forgetting one thing - the market is not only the price, it is also the availability of liquidity (volumes) at an attractive price.
Regarding the lot - what difference does it make to you what lot the trade was made with? Lot is not an indicator of quality. If you understand what the master is talking about here in his strange scientific language, which is not very clear to the rest, you can make 1000 out of 100 dollars in just a week, and then your lot will grow in proportion to the growth of your deposit.
Look at the second trades... The man just buys against the market, he buys once, the price makes some downward movement against his position, he immediately buys again and again.. What does this say?? About his madness??? Or maybe it says about his confidence in what he does?? While your stoploss would have been broken, he continues to do what he did.. Therefore, he does not put stops, because he knows and understands what is happening now and what will happen next.
Look at his take profit when he places it (how far in advance) and how the price works it out literally at the end of the movement. Isn't this aerobatics? He takes 80-90% percent of each price move.
If you learn to do what the master does, do it consistently, you are a) a potential millionaire, b) a potential billionaire.
jullian29 wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:01 am Reading through this whole thread, I know that I am not on the same level of mathematical enlightenment as you - and so are the other traders. But hell, if I can not communicate to you that the angle of approach you're taking to convey your ideas and on how you present them to your audience is simply not the most efficient nor effective way - this thread will just ramble on until it reaches the maximum page allowed on this site.
Don't worry about the length of this thread. There are other threads on this resource that are over 1300 pages long, in which people endlessly walk in circles. So in this sense, everything is fine here.
If you don't understand everything that the master says, use Google, there is a decoding in an accessible language the mathematical concepts and their meaning. Read and re-read thoughtfully what the master says. He already talks too much in this thread (which he did not plan to do at all). He gave us a finished product, and in order to use it, he doesn’t have to descend to our level and constantly explain something to everyone (which he does anyway), it’s we who wants to use Orbit must to rise at least a little to his level in order to at least partially understand what he is talking about and what laid down in the basis of Orbit.

Re: A New Trading Game (chaos game) Played for Money and Played in Risk- Free Space

679
Darkdoji wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:24 pm If you understand the notion of a Strange Attractor a) you would not see the fluctuations as drawdowns and .01merely allows you train your senses to the space (recommended). But the pilot is not contracted to you or anyone for lot size, now let me say the following generally b) in fact a stop loss is applied but may be not where you expected (since you have very rigid ideas apparently about how trading is done), a stop loss is a convenience in risk-free space (mostly to guard against topological mixing), it is only an absolute necessity in risky ("technical" analysis) space because you are guessing in that space and within dimensions you do not understand or can control. In your reaction it is obvious that your mind is considering behaviour you learnt from "technical" analysis but the pilot has learnt to fly in chaotic space and according to the known rules of that space. A deterministic system is certain per current diagonal so do not mix up 2 completely different concepts - in other words before you judge learn the new concept first and what it allows and does not allow you to do in practical terms and why c) we have said we are not dealing with a "trading system" and based on the knowledge of chaotic space you can choose how you wish to trade - the pilot is not teaching you what to do he is doing what he understands well and nothing invites you to do the same as you only do what suits you. But it is important to know that "technical" analysis is NOT a "truth" because if anything there were true chaos would be a false science but we know it is not for markets and other spheres where it applies. Unless you understand what we have been saying and actually practice and experience it, your ideas within the sphere may not apply coming as it is from another sphere which has no knowledge of market dynamics, none whatsoever. d) I welcome your views on how to communicate the subject and would be delighted for you to enlighten as to how it has been done to great effectiveness and efficiency, e.g. on some other forum on the same subject because I do want to communicate effectively but otherwise you could for instance tell us here by listing the specifics of what defines your idea of effective and efficient communication of the subject. e) "There has got to be a better way to enter a trade without having those huge draw downs". Please show us. f) "One can not simply separate emotion from being human - unless you prove your thesis into law by running it on an EA, utilizing your commands and all. Capturing (screenshot) every entry and exit to show that the commands were on the chart when they were made." Emotions yes - that is why we have the Screenface to help and you will find that it does (because again without any experience of the model whatsoever and even granted that you are the best trader in the world by track, nothing gives you the ability to state otherwise without evidence of your experience with the model). Finally, g) Lets be clear and reasonable here, I came to share my thoughts and ideas and I am not here to "prove" anything to anyone. Take it or leave it, try it to find it or not find it. Those are the choices you have to make. I sincerely wish you well.

The Crow (-_-)
1. You have to superimpose your illustrations on top of the charts - who would've thought that the trade was currently in the sphere of rotation-saddle, only you.

2. Annotate the screenshots taken - what parts of the Orbit coincided the appearance of fractals (crowns, arrows, semaphores etc.), how do we know that Orbit was explicitly giving us the Inverse On command? A B Cs and X Ys are not enough.

3. Show the whole picture - like I said, we are not on the same level of mathematical enlightenment as you do nor are versed in this subject of fractal geometry hence the difficulty of mentally visualizing/fully comprehending how Orbit works. You made it - walk us through on how your thought processes work. I suggest doing audio commentary on the screenshots taken (30 mins per bar is too long, obviously no one can sit through a 10 hr video).

Lastly, give Orbit the ability to send alarms for the different commands - a chaos plane needs two pilots in its cockpit to fly. Not sure about the other people here, but one can not and should not sit in front of a screen that long just waiting for a fractal.

Re: A New Trading Game (chaos game) Played for Money and Played in Risk- Free Space

680
ImpLaNT wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:51 pm Interesting... where did you see huge drawdowns here??? Both trades, up and down, are made absolutely correctly. Once again.... ABSOLUTELY. The fact that after the sell price fluctuated a little before making a big move does not mean anything. You can't know exactly how and with what aggressiveness the price will move in the direction of your open position. It can slowly slide throughout the day, or it can make a sheer wall within an hour. There was no noticeable drawdown in the first case. The price did not even try to return to the upper extreme.
Regarding stoploss... Do you know what stoplosses are invented for??? In order to be ripped off by other traders in search of liquidity (big uncles, not us), who open positions of 50-100 lots and they really need liquidity to enter, which you kindly provide them in the form of a set of your stoplosses. You must have repeatedly observed situations when the price moved against your position, went a certain distance beyond the extreme and turned down aggressively... So, it was them, big uncles, who dragged the price up to turn your stoplosses into liquidity to open their sell positions. I hope I explained clearly. Therefore, if a man is confident in what he is doing, he does not put stoplosses at least at the beginning of the price move, so as not to become food for larger fish. You keep forgetting one thing - the market is not only the price, it is also the availability of liquidity (volumes) at an attractive price.
Regarding the lot - what difference does it make to you what lot the trade was made with? Lot is not an indicator of quality. If you understand what the master is talking about here in his strange scientific language, which is not very clear to the rest, you can make 1000 out of 100 dollars in just a week, and then your lot will grow in proportion to the growth of your deposit.
Look at the second trades... The man just buys against the market, he buys once, the price makes some downward movement against his position, he immediately buys again and again.. What does this say?? About his madness??? Or maybe it says about his confidence in what he does?? While your stoploss would have been broken, he continues to do what he did.. Therefore, he does not put stops, because he knows and understands what is happening now and what will happen next.
Look at his take profit when he places it (how far in advance) and how the price works it out literally at the end of the movement. Isn't this aerobatics? He takes 80-90% percent of each price move.
If you learn to do what the master does, do it consistently, you are a) a potential millionaire, b) a potential billionaire.



Don't worry about the length of this thread. There are other threads on this resource that are over 1300 pages long, in which people endlessly walk in circles. So in this sense, everything is fine here.
If you don't understand everything that the master says, use Google, there is a decoding in an accessible language the mathematical concepts and their meaning. Read and re-read thoughtfully what the master says. He already talks too much in this thread (which he did not plan to do at all). He gave us a finished product, and in order to use it, he doesn’t have to descend to our level and constantly explain something to everyone (which he does anyway), it’s we who wants to use Orbit must to rise at least a little to his level in order to at least partially understand what he is talking about and what laid down in the basis of Orbit.
Do your trades with annotations then post them here (I will too when my schedule allows me to), isn't that the whole point of this thread - to show that anyone (noob or pro) can trade the Orbit and be successful doing it. Yes, he doesn't need to go down to my level, and obviously you aren't on his either - none of us are. It is never wrong to be a skeptic.


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