Ogee wrote: Sat Dec 20, 2025 9:01 pm And so another round of waste of time negotiations ends with the 2 sides still at opposite ends of the spectrum and the Americans scratching their heads not able to figure out why.

It’s actually very simple.

The Russians, very understandably, see NATO in Ukraine as an existential threat and so will not rest until NATO is gone and Ukraine is returned to neutrality, and the NATO built Ukrainian army is gone, and the Ukrainian neonazi regime is kicked out of Kiev.

There never was any point in the Americans trying to bargain at all.

There never was any point in the Ukrainians trying to get the Russians to just give up.

There was never any point in the Europeans trying to weaken and hurt Russia.

All along Russia was obviously going to win the conventional war because, being a nuclear superpower, if Russia ever looked like losing against what they rightly considered an existential threat, then they absolutely would use nuclear weapons.

Of course they would, that’s what they’re for, that’s why the US has them, but if you missed it, Putin said very clearly, very early on, that ‘there would not be a world without Russia in it’.

The above reveals the degrees of seriousness between the Russians and the West. Russia sees the conflict as existential and so can not give up until all the aims are met, the West knows it’s not existential for themselves. The West wants compromises whereas the Russians can’t.

The only thing that has changed over the last 10 years and the 3 broken peace agreements, that were all broken by Ukraine and the West, is the price that Ukraine will pay that continues to increase every single day for making Russia go to the trouble of having to kick NATO out.

That’s what the Americans and the Europeans don’t get and why all the talk of ceasefires, NATO peacekeepers, Ukraine in NATO, Ukraine with another huge NATO armed and trained army, was always a total waste of time.

How could they not have known this? All this was known from the start.

Because of greed for the Russian natural resources and they got lost in their own propaganda bullshit.

The West pretending that this conflict was nothing to do with NATO and is really just about Russian expansion and imperialism remains the problem.

The West knew this war could happen back in 2008 when they decided to aim for Ukraine to join NATO, the Russians warned them then this would happen.

And the longer this war goes on the worse things will be for Ukrainians after it's over, except for Zelensky, obviously.

Once started of course a quick end was never possible, the US had invested too much to just give up and by the time they did the EU/UK had taken out so much in loans to keep the war going that to give up meant total bankruptcy and the fall of the EU, and the fall of all the political leaders who backed this debacle.

No one wants to pay the bills coming due once it’s over so can’t stop now, the only one who actually could stop it now is Zelensky and he’s doing very well thank you very much.

The war should have ended a long time ago, when the main weapon (sanctions) didn't work. Ukrainians would still have a country, with a healthy population, an economy and an infrastructure, and friends who weren’t bankrupt.

Now Ukrainians are going to have nothing, and that’s all they will have for decades to come.



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