hesam-moon wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:00 pm Brother, check this indicator that I sent, it is really interesting.

I did for a bit -- wanted to know what you see and how you relate it to Orbit. Straightaway I can say a) it is ok but to me an average indicator b) it is later (much more so), than Orbit signals c) it is surjective in pointing (does not cover all Orbit signal points in fact misses out many), so sparse in signals relative to Orbit (except in M1 where it covers the whole space and is too much) d) normal curve mathematics obviously so it does not point at roof and floor points or levels and its pointing is randomly distributed. For instance Orbit signals time to the first 4 hour bar any move but this indicator only gets that sometimes and many other times it points well after the move so in the middle many times. For someone like me who wants to be among the first going up or down that is a problem. e) also is hidden from view among my Semaphores and tried to make them bigger but not the best clogged up my setup f) finally when I tried to see if I could align it to Orbit numbers by changing the default lookback -----------> it hung my computer so badly I had to delete it quickly. But it works when it shows around Orbit signals (though late) and on the H4 time frame which is actually a weekly register it has not shown any signals at all this week. My assessment is that the best timing for it under current settings is M30 (which means an Orbit scalper will beat it always for money.
So I am going to look at one of your posts above that shows you matching it with Orbit signals to see how and why you find the fit between it and Orbit and then ask questions as may be I did something wrong to find the things I found (I am very fast at reviewing indicators because of years of experience doing just that to find the ones with the right rates of deformation for measuring shapes.
Let me know if I have been objective here.

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sal wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:14 pm Your entry position is at LH/HLs right !
a different approach of mine

Could you kindly post the oscillator in the shot. Looks interesting ----> would like to play around just a bit with it and see how it times and calculate its deformation rate. On your M1 seems to cycle very well. Anything that follows aperiodicity well is of interest to chaotist. I hope you do not mind.

Thanks,

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My guess of the oscillator might be a stochastic

PERFECT

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Chickenspicy wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 4:46 am PERFECT

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May be more helpful with a short profile telling us how these indicators of your specifically relate to Orbit and Orbit traders including Orbit scalpers. The other posters here I have seen so far are clearly related and therefore interesting and helpful even without profiles but if they have nothing to do with chaos theory or fractal geometry or indeed cyclic trends and they are just regular normal curve mathematics indicators then may be they would be better elsewhere (I mean posted elsewhere), this will help you promote them more appropriately and to a clearer audience. I hope you understand ----------> this thread is really got nothing to do with "technical" trading and traders. I am sure they are all great indicators but so are 2984 others by my reckoning - the key is suitability to strategy and theory of the market. I thought you were getting keen on chaos and would soon come up with some real market cracker using the ideas on chaos and fractals on this thread but you seem to be drifting back into the "technical" hole. How about Orbit scalper (too much to understand for you?). It is really easy and effective ------> look at Italian Trader's post above - sweet deal man. He got it good and he just started. What do you think?

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PS: When you think about it this thread is not about indicators more about modelling the market according to the theory that says the market is undisputedly deterministic. For the market to be deterministic and proven so is really huge but you have to think about it and understand what that really means. If "technical" indicators were anything close to solutions we would not be here. They are simple slaves and most work similarly and very, very inaccurately because they cannot time the markets correctly at best they lag the market and leave users in a hole every time. The solution (I humbly beg to say), is finding the correct idea of what explains the market completely and working within such to make markets profitable for traders so we (traders), can at least benefit directly instead of remaining gamblers in all but name from begin to end of careers. I am sorry, but I am really not impressed by repeating the same thing forever and somehow expecting progress that way. I hope I make at least a little sense.

Darkdoji wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:28 pm Hahahaha ----------------> And I thought I did not understand what is meant by the 123 pattern in fact this is the Orbit template manually inscribed with the numbers 123 to show progression the way we have specified for Orbit but using the developers sense because he or she (I think this is an @ImPlanT output from the looks of) would rather use numbers than our letters in Orbit. But in fact if you look at your Orbit templates the points you see now on the screenshot would be marked by Semaphore Crowns (on any time frame) by A (3) A for Aqua, G (4) G for Gold and M (5) M for Magenta. I think the developer of the 123 system invented the numbers to suit his own understanding of the Orbit lettering so it is correct and will always be - the market fractal is a triangulation and that is what we see any which way you kick the market. Very interesting that I thought I did not understand the "system" now I do. Good Job.

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Mr.sam first of all thanks for sharing and teaching your amazing work. its outstanding that someone with mathematical and statistical theories build a robust system for trading..
the orbit seems so outstanding to me specially because of certainties and logic behind it. as you said it has simillarities with other great systems in our froums. for example you could check XARD system in 4tf (semaphores,channels,and etc..) but the orbit seems more robust and i started to learning it..
but i have two concerns
1- with all my respects and gratitude,relying just on a system wich depends on expiry date Which no one never knows the end date!
2- simplilfying the basic rules for using with some alarms, or compounding it with other good performs systems or templates which are more familiar to our past experiences

ps: concern 1 is so important to me,because i think all these system are just tools and learing to fishing shoud not depends on just one Borrowed tool with expiry! this is more immportant from having fishes.

Darkdoji wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 3:01 am I did for a bit -- wanted to know what you see and how you relate it to Orbit. Straightaway I can say a) it is ok but to me an average indicator b) it is later (much more so), than Orbit signals c) it is surjective in pointing (does not cover all Orbit signal points in fact misses out many), so sparse in signals relative to Orbit (except in M1 where it covers the whole space and is too much) d) normal curve mathematics obviously so it does not point at roof and floor points or levels and its pointing is randomly distributed. For instance Orbit signals time to the first 4 hour bar any move but this indicator only gets that sometimes and many other times it points well after the move so in the middle many times. For someone like me who wants to be among the first going up or down that is a problem. e) also is hidden from view among my Semaphores and tried to make them bigger but not the best clogged up my setup f) finally when I tried to see if I could align it to Orbit numbers by changing the default lookback -----------> it hung my computer so badly I had to delete it quickly. But it works when it shows around Orbit signals (though late) and on the H4 time frame which is actually a weekly register it has not shown any signals at all this week. My assessment is that the best timing for it under current settings is M30 (which means an Orbit scalper will beat it always for money.
So I am going to look at one of your posts above that shows you matching it with Orbit signals to see how and why you find the fit between it and Orbit and then ask questions as may be I did something wrong to find the things I found (I am very fast at reviewing indicators because of years of experience doing just that to find the ones with the right rates of deformation for measuring shapes.
Let me know if I have been objective here.

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Hello brother. The indicator that I sent is not comparable to Orbit in any way. I read Ashob's mathematics, I know the story of Mandelrite, and I sent this indicator just to familiarize myself with 123 patterns. Otherwise, Orbit is very effective and excellent for me. Orbit is absolutely a miracle.

Darkdoji wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:29 am

im not negating any use of orbit
this is to signal when price has made a pause
then i read orbit

far more smoother then fair value gaps/ orderblocks/ imbalance
volume is a real factor in markets
whenever there wasnt time restrictions, banks could manipulate markets however they wanted

anyways, thank you for your service to the trading world

commodus wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:52 am Mr.sam first of all thanks for sharing and teaching your amazing work. its outstanding that someone with mathematical and statistical theories build a robust system for trading..
the orbit seems so outstanding to me specially because of certainties and logic behind it. as you said it has simillarities with other great systems in our froums. for example you could check XARD system in 4tf (semaphores,channels,and etc..) but the orbit seems more robust and i started to learning it..
but i have two concerns
1- relying just on a system wich depends on expiry date Which noone never knows the end date!
2- simplilfying the basic rules for using with some alarms, or compounding it with other good performs systems or templates which are more familiar to our past experiences

ps: concern 1 is so important to me,because i think all these system are just tools and learing to fishing shoud not depends on just one Borrowed tool with expiry! this is more immportant from having fishes.

Thank you for your open and direct post ----------> Simply lovely. First, Orbit will always be around on the Station always (one way or another. Even when I fell ill I made sure), so do not worry about that. Small tiny changes (in timing and spacing) over time can make for huge changes in accuracy of direction so we have need to update the lookbacks every once in a while (which are not calculated based on clock time but on deformation rates (the market is a homoeomorphic process)). Exposed and available without limit therefore is not as useful as dated and updated as need be. The cloud version would have no need for that it will adjust automatically on slight changes in pattern. I hope you get my sense.
The tool you are using right now is a prototype put out to get attention from specific groups (not necessarily traders), to show that the cloud version which is the goal is not just possible but that in fact the prototype can bear witness to that fact ahead. Indeed, Orbit the Tool would be unrecognizable once developed for the Cloud it will be an outrage and for the simple fact that at that point people would be outraged that it was kept under wraps for so long (ignoring the fact that it is going to cost a lot of money to implement and that is taking a lot of time as a whole range of people - especially traders just do not understand it because of a culture of hurry and irrational hope that an MA crossover can give them the holy grail so see no reason why they should look at anything requiring some new thinking at all). But good luck to so called "technical" trading because I can laugh right now and say without any fear of contradiction whatsoever --------> there will NEVER come a day when you get the holy grail from a crossover or any other "technical" indicator or some so-called "trading system" until you overcome "extreme sensitivity to initial conditions or chaos" - this is what we show here and now. Orbit the tool has overcome that but needs to be in the cloud to be that more obvious.
But with "technical" thinking that is not possible - the great John Ehler came closest with his Fisher transforms and other really good tools he made - he was (to my mind), the best. But he is an engineer and in my thinking the flaw in all of his approach was to apply engineering math to his notion of cyclicality based on engineering ideas from DSP (and ignoring Mandelbrotian randomness). Sine curve like market cycles are too smooth and he could not get them to pinpoint tops and bottoms because markets are rough and their cycles are aperiodic so he really got close but that is it.
Now to the question of simplicity I would argue that giving you a 2 step approach as in the Orbit Scalper is super simple and of course giving you a single step entry for main trades cannot get simpler than that. But the issue is this people have no time they are such losers they have accepted that they can never win because the market confounds most completely so most traders have actually given up and are locked in that attitude of hopelessness with no real desire to better themselves. But just that like gamblers they have become addicted to this thing we call charts. Why do I say so. Chaos is NOT "technical" analysis - "technical" analysis has not a clue about what it means and absolutely no clue about market dynamics so absolutely no similarities between chaos theory and what people know and use at this time. So in order to make clear the ideas we spend a lot of time explaining them because without the ideas people will fail as evidenced here by 2 step methods of trading and a single step method of trading still seeming to be complicated. All because to explain why 1 step and 2 steps work you need some information and far less and more straightforward than Elliot Waves or Harmonics which all traders including me are well versed in despite their totally pointless complexity.

Nothing can be simpler than what we have now. What people object to really is A NEW IDEA . These are after all penniless "experts" who know everything about trading so "why waste my time trying to understand something said to be new and different they seem to be saying." Well that is a fair choice to make but if you are going to become a millionaire by chaos at least know what it says, why and how it is meant. Then you will see why a simple and single step takes you from A to B certain and then you can also vary your style trading. Who can show me in all of trading a single step or a 2 step trading format. We cannot have a no step at all approach. So I like the sound of you but I fear you also may falter soon just because you may not have the time to gain the understanding before wanting to trade the tool and see a single step format as all the Icons on the screenface and wonder which one should I follow because "technicals" has left folks with the illusion that simplicity is norm and a thing as complex as a market is resolved by a 5 period MA crossing over a 10 period MA. What is my point?

What you see as complexity has to do with introducing chaos and how it works and thereafter the actual tool is simpler than any so called trading system to trade. I hope I am sharing my thoughts effectively and do forgive me even if you think I am obnoxious doing so as I am simply frustrated by this curious situation - people who will not learn to fly the F16 want to be top gun F16 fighter pilots in combat the next day. Anything worth doing takes doing plain and simple. I have done my best and cannot be contradicted by the facts - it is simple because it is a mathematical model (NOT a trading system) and everything is done for you (far, far more so in the cloud version), but if you do not understand what is inverse on, or what is structure preserving transformation how can you trust to enter and hold a trade on the inverse on command since to you, you are being asked to follow a change in some indicator and you have all your life without much difference - so what is new in this case? Once you are like that then the time and effort taken to lead you in to a different set of expectations is all lost. MY TIME. So to cut an already too long a story short. read the Orbit Books try out the ideas, ask questions and breakout with it if you can. I am not saying this because I made the tool I am saying this because I lost money when I came into trading some 16 years ago - lost over 65K$ and for a poor African that is unforgivable and all for what? Jerks who did not know what they were talking about. I mean I am not exactly an idiot and hold an MBA from one of the Top business schools in the UK so how come "fundamental" analysis did not work for me? How come I knew "technical" analysis was a sham after a year, etc That is why in part I spent time since making sure that nonsense stops where everyone but traders make money and all on the back of traders. So if you want you can do it but not on your terms - you must learn the language and thinking to see and trade the simplicity that is chaos. Thanks and cheers.

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Chickenspicy wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:07 am im not negating any use of orbit
this is to signal when price has made a pause
then i read orbit

far more smoother then fair value gaps/ orderblocks/ imbalance
volume is a real factor in markets
whenever there wasnt time restrictions, banks could manipulate markets however they wanted

anyways, thank you for your service to the trading world

How come volume predicts absolutely nothing? It has nothing (in my experience and understanding), to do with anything and remains as false as any other "technical" indicator. What you want and what we do in Orbit is to take the microstructure apart and gain an understanding of market matching engines employed in the microstructure as the "physical or analogue basin of attraction." Orders are sequences man called tuples in mathematics and if you have a piled set of orders with sells to one side and buys the other side ask yourself what happens at the end of the list? A sequence is not open to corruption from anywhere. It is a listing - lets stop reading things that are akin to trying to read the future from the entrails of dead animals. We cannot in this day and age of the computer talk and think like pit traders. The pit is gone and dead and its place is the computer and its order matching engines. What to your mind can corrupt an order matching system at will? What? But my point is if you have a contribution in code to make to further solutions tell us good amounts of detail about it and how and why you think it will help. For instance all you have listed here I do not understand and I will not go probing google for all that unresearched stuff about what works and what does not - this is a civilization man and there are things that are known with certainty at this point - lets use them and dump voodoo schemes to get somewhere rather than spend all our time here and gain nothing. Just to clarify.

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