“Fractal geometry is not just a chapter of mathematics, but one that helps Everyman to see the same world differently.” - Benoit Mandelbrot.

From the cloud we can tell the exact time a trend intensifies, we can tell exactly first level, second level, third level ... profit taking, we can tell pre adverse spike (topological mixing), that it is ahead... we can tell...

So it is NOT that we are done - no not at all. The market is profoundly wicked (or complex or as they say in fractal geometry, detailed), and so yes you will do better now but not anywhere close to when you have the ability to manage risk-free space. I do not joke when I say Orbit will change the way markets are traded forever. But I do not hear any questions or views or curiosity expressed so far and I should shut up soon (because most traders do not see life the way I do, they think of themselves as very smart in the sense of keeping things to themselves that they think will be of advantage to others and run with tiny insights thinking only of an edge to themselves---- the zero sum game mentality). But this time that angle will make such people worse off and I know what I mean, the only thing I do not know now is when exactly that shock future will come but it will---when you know how to manipulate the market equation you crack the market completely but at the same time you see clearly that the assumptions we make about consistent profitability needs more than knowing risk-free space it needs topological thinking so it is NOT over until it is over. The fact is the market is a very well defended animal (and it is not a bull or bear at anytime one of the things they drill into players from babypips -----> ultimate failure, it is a far more devious creature). You can control chaos as Orbit proves but it is always there and you cannot kill it. Just a thought.

(_-_) Inverted

Darkdoji wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:44 pm (_-_) Inverted

on the day when you have "risk free trading" there will be no market to trade anymore.
Once it is clear where price is going there will be nobody to buy when you sell and vice versa - very basic logic.

josi wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:52 pm on the day when you have "risk free trading" there will be no market to trade anymore.
Once it is clear where price is going there will be nobody to buy when you sell and vice versa - very basic logic.

That is because you do not know the economics that define markets (and the main reason traders act like children keeping stuff to themselves but live still in the general ignorance of the meaning of their actions). The market is a place to exchange value NOT (technically) a place you can take anything away from anyone. You already have risk-free space defined here and people will use it. Because the fact of human behaviour and therefore existence is that some prefer oranges to apples and that is why markets exist not because 99% of traders ultimately lose in prop trading be it a bank or a retail trader. So it is out there already and more is coming and coming such that it is not just knowing risk-free trading it is knowing profit maximization in risk free space. It is written in economics texts why and how markets exist and markets do not exist as a place to cheat or be cheated.

The Crow (-_-)

BTW: In shops the price is NOT hidden from anyone and we have shops everywhere it is no different from financial markets traded on screens - all they do is to create a space where value is exchanged.

josi wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:52 pm on the day when you have "risk free trading" there will be no market to trade anymore.
Once it is clear where price is going there will be nobody to buy when you sell and vice versa - very basic logic.

Also understand what has happened here. You would normally buy or sell in the same ignorance as your counterparty and that is inefficient transactioning. Knowing equally is an advantage to both. Makes price discovery more efficient -----> trading should not be a gamble and markets being efficient does not mean everyone will win the same and always or that you can come with a bucket every time and "fetch" money ----> fingers MUST remain as unequal as they were made and it takes a lot of skill. But it does allow only the skilled to grow and grow geometrically. Sure that is not a general assumption because people think of wealth not as a function of time and skill but as a function of doing others in. Well if I have my way that will not be true for markets. Only extreme skill will reward extremely and not just knowing the price ahead. Do not forget markets trade on some definite balance at specific times. That is the key because when everyone knows it is the fluctuation that changes nothing else.

The Crow (-_-)

Darkdoji wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:47 pm Also understand what has happened here. You would normally buy or sell in the same ignorance as your counterparty and that is inefficient transactioning. Knowing equally is an advantage to both. Makes price discovery more efficient -----> trading should not be a gamble and markets being efficient does not mean everyone will win the same and always or that you can come with a bucket every time and "fetch" money ----> fingers MUST remain as unequal as they were made and it takes a lot of skill. But it does allow only the skilled to grow and grow geometrically. Sure that is not a general assumption because people think of wealth not as a function of time and skill but as a function of doing others in. Well if I have my way that will not be true for markets. Only extreme skill will reward extremely and not just knowing the price ahead. Do not forget markets trade on some definite balance at specific times. That is the key because when everyone knows it is the fluctuation that changes nothing else.

The Crow (-_-)

I mean the fluctuations in your pocket.

josi wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:52 pm on the day when you have "risk free trading" there will be no market to trade anymore.
Once it is clear where price is going there will be nobody to buy when you sell and vice versa - very basic logic.

It is in this that there is a danger of such a thing as the Orbit entering the universal space. This is exactly what I meant Doc, when told you that if the majority master this approach 100%, this approach will automatically cease to exist because ... either the market will change beyond recognition, that your approach will stop working (as for example happened with the approach Elliott, who is already practically not working, or working on very large time frames, such as D1 and above), or the market will not exist at all.
Understand Doc, the market does not exist for someone to exchange apples for oranges and then for bananas. The market is primarily a speculative environment where everyone hopes to earn something. You have probably heard about traders who have been trading oil for 10 years and have never seen what this barrel of oil looks like in real life. Obviously they don't buy and sell it because they need it. They have a need to get money as a result of their speculations. But this is not the main thing .... And the main thing is that in the global plan, the market is that instrument (one of the instruments) through which extra money is withdrawn from people. Through hedge funds, brokers, banking investment applications, etc. There is only one goal - to bring to the market as many stupid sheep as possible, who don't understand anything but want to have something. This is how the social system works. What is it for? In order to make you run faster and again earn new money, which then you will again have to bring and leave in the market. And if the market ceases to fulfill this role of a destroyer, and even begins to enrich people, it simply will not exist. How is this possible, you say? Well, for example, the introduction of a single world currency, such as Bitcoin. And that's it - forex is no more. The same can be done with commodity markets. Remember - the system does not need rich people. The system is run by disgustingly rich people, for whom the Elon Musk is just a kid, nothing more. And no one needs any even the slightest competition. Therefore, I dare to tell you that in matters of judgment about the markets, you are hardly right, and you were taught economics by very bright and positive teachers .... Like in Soviet schools, in classrooms flooded with sunlight, outside of which spring birds were chirping and teachers were talking about world peace.

ImpLaNT wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:36 pm

Actually it is - logically - much simpler than this:
only as long as price-development cannot be predicted and is open to interpretation can there be a market because you need buyers & sellers at the same time to establish any market.
If the future direction of price is clear to everybody (theoretically) - let's for arguments sake say: UP - then there will be no sellers; ergo there will be no market (regardless of one world currency or 100).

ImpLaNT wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:36 pm It is in this that there is a danger of such a thing as the Orbit entering the universal space. This is exactly what I meant Doc, when told you that if the majority master this approach 100%, this approach will automatically cease to exist because ... either the market will change beyond recognition, that your approach will stop working (as for example happened with the approach Elliott, who is already practically not working, or working on very large time frames, such as D1 and above), or the market will not exist at all.
Understand Doc, the market does not exist for someone to exchange apples for oranges and then for bananas...

No do not be so easily scared of a future over which have no control the world exists on laws of God (like chaos), not on the will of man. Do not imagine that anyone at all is more intelligent than thou and so intelligent he can control you because you feel an awe of him (maybe think he has more money or power), and that you cannot respond to such powers as he has. No no no you can. In fact the market does exist for exactly the principle as for apples and oranges or it will NOT exist at all. The markets exist to enable man meet his need for exchange generally and there is no central intelligence that saw the future you describe so clearly as to arrange it as you describe - it is too simple and obvious to be possible (in fact well outside of possibility I assure you). That is why when you discount that thought you hold with the right discount factor it must reduce to fear. But the fear is in you not in your reality. I told you then what I told our brother up. I tell you the same thing still - what economics (not me), has found. They are wrong, again there will be no markets at all. Markets can be made more or less efficient that is all no man by whatever means has the power to change it. Ignorance is no good and if it were not for the boldness of man in breach of fear you would never have known me and I you since the internet made our friendship possible. So regardless of the conspiracy theories about the internet for instance and its founders it exists on principle and that principle is a universal truth and that is why it is there.

You mention Elliot somebody I am not that body and I have not behaved like him in time. I found the market equation he found nothing. He had a strong desire to explain a theory he felt which is pretty logical to the even mind but he never established any truth because he never had one to establish. You compare chaos to Elliot whatever? On what basis? What was the science he relied on? Did he tell you? But you think what you witness now (and there is more ---> Oh God there is so much more), follows a path similar to Elliot's?Then that will be because you cannot yet tell the difference between an equation and pure heuristics based on truly impressive thinking at the time but a falsehood forever. Without equations being fundamentally true this exchange between us will not be. If I did not know for certain that Gann, Elliot and the rest (even the scientist engineer John Ehler I respect so much ---> were all wrong I would not waste anyone's time). Also fires burn in ways not seen before - in Hawaii some town went to flames, winds, earth quakes, famines, etc like we have never known before not to mention heatwaves. Is the world about to end? I do not know but I know that this is a time of change as a truth is to my mind about to unfold all man kind. But fear no man as no man has the power to change the world in the ways we sometimes imagine. Whether in group or individually no one controls the markets and if you understand the equation we rely on you will understand that it is simply best to do your thing with the knowledge God has allowed and allowed for reasons we do not know and he allowed it now. It is not a thought ala Eliot whatever, it is a discovery by scientists upon the invention of the computer 53 or so years ago and made possible for that reason and that reason alone. The market on principle cannot be changed by anyone or anything. I will soon die and I found a truth to share thinking all will be happy instead I am the only one happy because as it is with man we think how to defend what we keep for ourselves ---> no no no the world is beyond us and as individuals none is important we are with the elements merely shaping a future defined by a higher being trust him. The markets will not self destruct but the time I have to say my truth is now and I am not being irresponsible.

The Crow (-_-)

PS: Would you rather I died with my truth?

josi wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 12:26 am Actually it is - logically - much simpler than this:
only as long as price-development cannot be predicted and is open to interpretation can there be a market because you need buyers & sellers at the same time to establish any market.
If the future direction of price is clear to everybody (theoretically) - let's for arguments sake say: UP - then there will be no sellers; ergo there will be no market (regardless of one world currency or 100).

Does not work like that and the market was not for speculators made. The market was made for Nigerians with kids in Russia, Australia, Canada, etc to pay school fees that is why markets were made among other things and not speculators. Your sense of the markets mechanism is too narrow to explain its logic. I have told you it is not me (whom I suppose you are sure does not know anything, to say at all about anything). I am telling you what is written in text. And are the writers of such facts false? Economics and economists? I do not think so because of what I read in Pythagoras and Meno when I was ten years old. In a sense my drive is the same as theirs they have methods of proof and remain undisputed by those standards to date. Trust them not me (and not yourself) for the simple reason that we both may not know more than they do.

(-_-)

Darkdoji wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 12:38 am

It remains for me to rely only on your mind, which managed to invent this approach, imagine the market without trends and timeframes, justify all this mathematically... I hope that you know and correctly imagine the consequences of the availability of a future cloud version of the Orbit, where a man will not need to think at all.
No, I would like you to live happily ever after and, if possible, cure your illness. In any case, you should see the result of your work.