Re: Moving Average indicators for MT4

1651
mladen wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:59 am That is one of the "wonder" descriptions found of the net describing the McGinley dynamic that I too was referring to in the description of the mt5 version :

You know : the usual sales punch 😊😊😊
So, you being the man you are: do you see any real-life-trading-advantages of the McGinley over a "simple" EMA because I didn't find one (if you use price-MA-cross as an entry)?


Re: Moving Average indicators for MT4

1652
josi wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:52 pm So, you being the man you are: do you see any real-life-trading-advantages of the McGinley over a "simple" EMA because I didn't find one (if you use price-MA-cross as an entry)?
Quite frankly I think that using price to (any) average is not a good idea

  • Just see what happens when the price starts ranging
  • The average itself (any average) is, by its nature, a filter - why some additional "filtering" (like that price to average cross), when already the average is doing the job

Re: Moving Average indicators for MT4

1653
mladen wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:26 pm Quite frankly I think that using price to (any) average is not a good idea

  • Just see what happens when the price starts ranging
  • The average itself (any average) is, by its nature, a filter - why some additional "filtering" (like that price to average cross), when already the average is doing the job
Thanks for your reply.

I don't quite understand it: I think you always "use price to (any) average" (if you use an average at all):
a) As far as I understand I don't use "additional" filtering: price moves more or less (i. e. trend move) randomly, the average is the filter for establishing directional bias
b) Price is either above or below an average - if it is above and the average moves up I look for buys, if below etc
c) But at which point do you enter? If a) is correct then you will probably enter when price either touches or crosses the average in trend direction (i. e. after retracement).

Ranges: during a range (the average moves more or less horizontally and price circles around average) randomness of price moves is high, therefore it may be best to avoid trades (except when range is wide enough to enter after price reverses at extremes).

Re: Moving Average indicators for MT4

1654
josi wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:56 pm Thanks for your reply.
I don't quite understand it: I think you always "use price to (any) average" (if you use an average at all):
a) As far as I understand I don't use "additional" filtering: price moves more or less (i. e. trend move) randomly, the average is the filter for establishing directional bias
b) Price is either above or below an average - if it is above and the average moves up I look for buys, if below etc
c) But at which point do you enter? If a) is correct then you will probably enter when price either touches or crosses the average in trend direction (i. e. after retracement).
Ranges: during a range (the average moves more or less horizontally and price circles around average) randomness of price moves is high, therefore it may be best to avoid trades (except when range is wide enough to enter after price reverses at extremes).
Price is the "nose"

Average is an attempt to make price "noiseless" (to asses something called "trend")

Using crossing of price (noise) to average (attempts to make price noiseless) just re-introduces the noise - ie: no use of it (at least that is my opinion) since then none of the job made by an average is valid any more
____________________________________________

PS: as an example use close price, and let me know how many times the close price crosses an average (any average) in, let say, 10 consecutive bars when there are crosses of price to average
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Re: Moving Average indicators for MT4

1655
mladen wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:20 pm Price is the "nose"
Average is an attempt to make price "noiseless" (to asses something called "trend")
Using crossing of price (noise) to average (attempts to make price noiseless) just re-introduces the noise - ie: no use of it (at least that is my opinion) since then none of the job made by an average is valid any more
Just to please you, here is a screenshot (with all crosses - not all of them trigger trades, though):
"price is noise" - I think the screenshot shows that this is an overgeneralisation.
sometimes (ranges) price is random, i. e. noise (many consecutive signals)
sometimes price is less random because it is in a trending move (this is the ideal time to trade) (fewer signals because only after retracements)
the job an average offers: structuring the data in a way that sometimes makes it possible to visualize the directional bias of price.
If the directional bias is up - you want to take buy-trades (everything else is a countertrend trade and highly risky)
If the directional bias is down - you want to take sell-trades (everything else is a countertrend trade and highly risky)
While I clearly state at which point I want to enter (and why), you just say: don't use price (noise), trust the MA because that's what it is there for in the first place:
If I take your oversimplification seriously this logically leads to the conclusion: I can enter whenever I want as long as MA gives me either an up (buy) or down (sell) signal.
Is there a problem? Sometimes not, but at others there will be because - often - price is far away from the MA only to retrace once you entered, so price moves against you etc
Of course, you know all this....
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Re: Moving Average indicators for MT4

1656
josi wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:56 pm Just to please you, here is a screenshot (with all crosses - not all of them trigger trades, though):
"price is noise" - I think the screenshot shows that this is an overgeneralisation.
sometimes (ranges) price is random, i. e. noise (many consecutive signals)
sometimes price is less random because it is in a trending move (this is the ideal time to trade) (fewer signals because only after retracements)
the job an average offers: structuring the data in a way that sometimes makes it possible to visualize the directional bias of price.
If the directional bias is up - you want to take buy-trades (everything else is a countertrend trade and highly risky)
If the directional bias is down - you want to take sell-trades (everything else is a countertrend trade and highly risky)
While I clearly state at which point I want to enter (and why), you just say: don't use price (noise), trust the MA because that's what it is there for in the first place:
If I take your oversimplification seriously this logically leads to the conclusion: I can enter whenever I want as long as MA gives me either an up (buy) or down (sell) signal.
Is there a problem? Sometimes not, but at others there will be because - often - price is far away from the MA only to retrace once you entered, so price moves against you etc
Of course, you know all this....
Please read my post again
I have nothing to add
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Re: Moving Average indicators for MT4

1658
mrtools wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:21 am Found an error i did when copied and pasted the line styles didn't change the indicator number, but for some reason it didn't really affect anything. Was reading what Mladen said about it and my understanding is the "improved" calculation actually makes it closer to an ema, where as before it was slower than both the sma and ema. So yea you're right it's very close to a Ema. Picture is using the improved calculation McGinley compared to Ema. If you don't mind me asking where was that quote from?
Not quite close as far as I can see. Compared two rainbows of 5-200 periods.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci

Re: Moving Average indicators for MT4

1660
ionone wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:58 pm this is a good MA.
try different parameters.
as a rule of thumb, decreasing "Pow" glues the MA to the price more (while losing a little bit of smoothness of course).

screenshot.18.jpg

I modified the original settings to a better set
Amka.mq4
In what way is it usable for you ? I'm curious :-)
we can't change the wind, but we can set the sails differently


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